Forums - super turbo question: guile & sagat Show all 24 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- super turbo question: guile & sagat (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=45574) Posted by strider2k on 11:05:2001 11:36 AM: super turbo question: guile & sagat from an old vid of japan vs usa super turbo match of john choi vs kurahashi, guile can sabot kicked sagat and avoided a low tiger shot simultaneously. precisely, how hard is it to time the sabot kick to hit sagat throwing a low tiger shot and avoiding the low tiger shot at the same time? also, can guile sabot kick over low tiger shots similar to ryu's hurricane kicking over the low tiger shots? Posted by sf2rb on 11:10:2001 06:15 AM: Re: super turbo question: guile & sagat quote: Originally posted by strider2k from an old vid of japan vs usa super turbo match of john choi vs kurahashi, guile can sabot kicked sagat and avoided a low tiger shot simultaneously. precisely, how hard is it to time the sabot kick to hit sagat throwing a low tiger shot and avoiding the low tiger shot at the same time? not hard........u need quick respond when u get close sagat.... also, can guile sabot kick over low tiger shots similar to ryu's hurricane kicking over the low tiger shots? not!sagat can hit u if u FK but both sagat and guile are not top tier! Posted by Dynamyte2U on 11:10:2001 06:51 AM: sf2rb>> umm, I thought Sagat was. Posted by sf2rb on 11:10:2001 09:39 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dynamyte2U sf2rb>> umm, I thought Sagat was. lame Posted by ise on 11:10:2001 10:56 AM: o-sagat is definitely top tier in ST dumbass Posted by sf2rb on 11:10:2001 11:02 AM: quote: Originally posted by ise o-sagat is definitely top tier in ST dumbass isn't ryu own sagat????better sc,HK,etc... Posted by Q8-Seth on 11:10:2001 12:31 PM: quote: Originally posted by sf2rb isn't ryu own sagat????better sc,HK,etc... DUH !!! Posted by sf2rb on 11:11:2001 06:49 AM: ryu,sim,honda and bison own sagat. Posted by Q8-Seth on 11:11:2001 12:29 PM: quote: Originally posted by sf2rb ryu,sim,honda and bison own sagat. New Sagat maybe, but with an O.Sagat who plays a perfect distance game it's very hard to just get in. Sagat can counter Honda's torpedos done from 3/4 screen distance with his uppercut even on reaction to his low tiger shots, and like for Honda jumping in is very bad cause Sagat will just low roundhouse or fierce uppercut him and repeat the pattern. O.Sagat is probably 2nd best in ST, for one simple reason the recovery of his tiger shots and his damaging uppercut. Most of the characters in Super Turbo can't get pass his trap easily. And that's why everyone uses him in tourneys. Posted by sf2rb on 11:12:2001 07:24 AM: quote: Originally posted by Q8-Seth New Sagat maybe, but with an O.Sagat who plays a perfect distance game it's very hard to just get in. Sagat can counter Honda's torpedos done from 3/4 screen distance with his uppercut even on reaction to his low tiger shots, and like for Honda jumping in is very bad cause Sagat will just low roundhouse or fierce uppercut him and repeat the pattern. O.Sagat is probably 2nd best in ST, for one simple reason the recovery of his tiger shots and his damaging uppercut. Most of the characters in Super Turbo can't get pass his trap easily. And that's why everyone uses him in tourneys. i dun think the best honda will so fool to jump and torpedo sagat when sagat is not jump or low tiger.........so i think sagat can't hit honda..... i also wonder wht sagat can do when ryu had his sc charged up.........dun forget old.sagat had no sc and soft throw......this is why i think sim and ryu also own him... any ideas? Posted by Iceman on 11:12:2001 07:48 AM: quote: Originally posted by Q8-Seth O.Sagat is probably 2nd best in ST, for one simple reason the recovery of his tiger shots and his damaging uppercut. Most of the characters in Super Turbo can't get pass his trap easily. And that's why everyone uses him in tourneys. Just out of curiosity, who do you consider #1 in ST? Posted by sf2rb on 11:12:2001 07:55 AM: quote: Originally posted by Iceman Just out of curiosity, who do you consider #1 in ST? needless to say.......akuma........definatly no.1: invincible dp beat every thing he touch.......cheap air fb trap,fucking no dizzy,kick ass juggling and had teleport to rock............. sim,vega may be the second. Posted by Masaka on 11:12:2001 01:54 PM: honda best man Posted by sf2rb on 11:13:2001 01:22 AM: quote: Originally posted by Masaka honda best man only if u set to turbo 3 speed..........speed make honda crazy shit.... Posted by dogberry on 11:13:2001 03:32 AM: strider2k: I'm a Guile player so I'll try to help you out. It's very hard to kick Sagat AND go over the low tiger at the same time because Guile has to get into the right distance and then anticipate if he's going to throw a low tiger. It's hard just to even get close enough to try this so I'm not sure if it's worth the effort. If you get a chance and you've got the timing down, though, you might want to try it. Yes, Guile can sobat kick over low tiger shots, but the timing is HARD. Even though I practice this move when I play against OG Sagat I get it maybe 1 out of 20 times. Also, I think you can only do this against roundhouse tiger shots. short and forward are too slow so you'll get hit if you try this. Posted by sf2rb on 11:13:2001 08:07 AM: quote: Originally posted by dogberry strider2k: I'm a Guile player so I'll try to help you out. It's very hard to kick Sagat AND go over the low tiger at the same time because Guile has to get into the right distance and then anticipate if he's going to throw a low tiger. It's hard just to even get close enough to try this so I'm not sure if it's worth the effort. If you get a chance and you've got the timing down, though, you might want to try it. Yes, Guile can sobat kick over low tiger shots, but the timing is HARD. Even though I practice this move when I play against OG Sagat I get it maybe 1 out of 20 times. Also, I think you can only do this against roundhouse tiger shots. short and forward are too slow so you'll get hit if you try this. why play guile against sagat?sagat is the guile's killer.........play chun,honda or blanka instead..........they kick sagat 's ass. Posted by jeaux on 11:14:2001 01:19 AM: what is all this talk about honda beating sagat...that is one of his absolute worst matches..there is just NO WAY that honda can get in unless the sagat player gets sloppy or messes something up..but, in theory, he can't get in....i agree sf2rb, honda is pretty good in ST, but any fireball character owns him for free, and sagat is the best fireballer in the game.. back to the original question in the thread... it is simply impossible to TIME, on reactipon, the sabot over low shots, especially since you can only do it over the roundhouse ones (maybe you can go over forward ones too, but i know for sure that short ones are too slow to sabot over)..the only way to get over them is to PREDICT when hes gonna throw a rh shot...pretty tuff stuff, but yea, it is possible....i would not base my whole game off of it though, i would pick a different chacater against sagat....i have seen that japanese kid from the vid play before...i sat and watched his guile this summer for like 2 hours one night...its unreal...made me wanna change my mind and put guile in the top tier....well, the point is just that that dude's guile is sick, i have never seen a guile player even come close to his level in the states....that tactic worked for HIM cause hes got the skill not to get hit 19 out of 20 tries, but i cant recommend practicing it in prep for a match against old sagat...come up with your own stuff against him, or better yet, just pick another character (dhalsim, ryu, boxer) after you lose the 1st time and practice THAT character against sagat. joe Posted by sf2rb on 11:14:2001 01:27 AM: quote: Originally posted by jeaux what is all this talk about honda beating sagat...that is one of his absolute worst matches..there is just NO WAY that honda can get in unless the sagat player gets sloppy or messes something up..but, in theory, he can't get in....i agree sf2rb, honda is pretty good in ST, but any fireball character owns him for free, and sagat is the best fireballer in the game.. back to the original question in the thread... it is simply impossible to TIME, on reactipon, the sabot over low shots, especially since you can only do it over the roundhouse ones (maybe you can go over forward ones too, but i know for sure that short ones are too slow to sabot over)..the only way to get over them is to PREDICT when hes gonna throw a rh shot...pretty tuff stuff, but yea, it is possible....i would not base my whole game off of it though, i would pick a different chacater against sagat....i have seen that japanese kid from the vid play before...i sat and watched his guile this summer for like 2 hours one night...its unreal...made me wanna change my mind and put guile in the top tier....well, the point is just that that dude's guile is sick, i have never seen a guile player even come close to his level in the states....that tactic worked for HIM cause hes got the skill not to get hit 19 out of 20 tries, but i cant recommend practicing it in prep for a match against old sagat...come up with your own stuff against him, or better yet, just pick another character (dhalsim, ryu, boxer) after you lose the 1st time and practice THAT character against sagat. joe i disargree....sure honda kick ass in st!!!it own non-fb chars...but fb chars can't own him for free..........his movable j.fierce,short butt dive and sc are ok against fb....... and i wonder how sagat the best fb guy in the game.........when ryu had super fb and akuma even had the cheapest fb in the game-air-fb fuck! Posted by jeaux on 11:14:2001 01:50 AM: quote: Originally posted by sf2rb i disargree....sure honda kick ass in st!!!it own non-fb chars...but fb chars can't own him for free..........his movable j.fierce,short butt dive and sc are ok against fb....... and i wonder how sagat the best fb guy in the game.........when ryu had super fb and akuma even had the cheapest fb in the game-air-fb fuck! first of all i wont include akuma in any of my comments as i believe it is a watse of time to talk about and consider him b/c he is banned from any worthwhile tounrnament, and simply a joke to play...secondly, i think most (no, not all, but most) ST players would agree OLD SAGAT has the best fireball in the game....unbelievable recovery, 2 heights...way too good...ryu has a great fireball super but that falls into a different category all together..its a super, a good one, but not a regular fireball, so its puts him into a slightly different conversation. believe me bro, im all with you, honda is one of my favorite characters in ST, but every fire baller gives him problems...especially those who recover quickly like o sagat, o ken, o ryu, chun li, guile... with honda you have to either stuff the fireballs before they come out with standing strong, or trip (back and RH)..or you jump over, or butt slam over the projectile...and everyone of those characters has anti-air moves that beat anything honda has...(sidenote/example: for the longest time i thought that honda could beat chun b/c his jumping forward beats her anti-air normals from the ground, but not up kicks..so if you jump when he doesnt have up kicks charged you can always get in...jump in with forward into hhs and you're IN! its done...but then i found out that chun's jumping straight up with roundhouse beats any jump in honda has, plus up kicks....and now i realize that match is almost futile against a good chun unless you just kick it bob painter style.) you are right, jumping straight up with fierce and swaying over the projectiles is good, but not good enough to get in...and honda absolutely HAS TO get in to win...and true, his super does go through fireballs, but who cares..you get one or two hits (all 5 if you are lucky but thats a rareity in the DC version, more common in the arcade) for 10 percent damage..imo, its just not enough for him to win....of course all of this theory is dependent on who is playing the characters...so if you are winning matches against fireball characters consistently i gotta give your hinda major props or say that your opponents dont know how to play against honda. joe Posted by sf2rb on 11:14:2001 03:57 AM: quote: Originally posted by jeaux first of all i wont include akuma in any of my comments as i believe it is a watse of time to talk about and consider him b/c he is banned from any worthwhile tounrnament, and simply a joke to play...secondly, i think most (no, not all, but most) ST players would agree OLD SAGAT has the best fireball in the game....unbelievable recovery, 2 heights...way too good...ryu has a great fireball super but that falls into a different category all together..its a super, a good one, but not a regular fireball, so its puts him into a slightly different conversation. believe me bro, im all with you, honda is one of my favorite characters in ST, but every fire baller gives him problems...especially those who recover quickly like o sagat, o ken, o ryu, chun li, guile... with honda you have to either stuff the fireballs before they come out with standing strong, or trip (back and RH)..or you jump over, or butt slam over the projectile...and everyone of those characters has anti-air moves that beat anything honda has...(sidenote/example: for the longest time i thought that honda could beat chun b/c his jumping forward beats her anti-air normals from the ground, but not up kicks..so if you jump when he doesnt have up kicks charged you can always get in...jump in with forward into hhs and you're IN! its done...but then i found out that chun's jumping straight up with roundhouse beats any jump in honda has, plus up kicks....and now i realize that match is almost futile against a good chun unless you just kick it bob painter style.) you are right, jumping straight up with fierce and swaying over the projectiles is good, but not good enough to get in...and honda absolutely HAS TO get in to win...and true, his super does go through fireballs, but who cares..you get one or two hits (all 5 if you are lucky but thats a rareity in the DC version, more common in the arcade) for 10 percent damage..imo, its just not enough for him to win....of course all of this theory is dependent on who is playing the characters...so if you are winning matches against fireball characters consistently i gotta give your hinda major props or say that your opponents dont know how to play against honda. joe yes,chun is really a monster in st............i met a chun master in hongkong,he made i think chun is top tier..........the sc delay's trick own my honda nad balrog for free!!!!!and she beat sagat very well too!!!!in hk,no one use sagat?!becasue he had many hard fight:ryu,chun,honda,blanka ,vega and bison,etc.....his fb is great,but his opponent still can beat him coz his fb delay is no as gd as the SB! honda?imho,he can win fb chars.....but u just need skill and patience....ryu will find difficult to beat honda too! Posted by roboticus on 11:14:2001 04:04 PM: Chan-Grimlock why do you continue these useless posts? You start two threads on crap that we already knew and crap that you could have found yourself, like it's all new, and then you continue to tell people that Honda is #1 man, and that Sagat sucks. I was going to ignore you, yet again, until I saw this thread and felt the need to expose more of your idiocy. Chun-li is not a monster and definitely not a Sagat killer. She can't do anything against Sagat b/c her jump speed and height fall so nicely in the fb-trap. You won't know this b/c even you admit that HK does not have any Sagat players. That is simply a pathetic state of ST skill. You have shown no provable, or even plausible anti-Sagat strats for us to even consider why HK doesn't play Sagat. There must be other HK players out there, or are the rumors true, HK sucks that much? Honda is not #1, when will you learn that? Honda has a super hard time against any shoto/qcf+fb'er Honda is slow enough that he gets pinned down by the machinegun timing of Sagat's fbs. Honda needs to charge to win and he can't charge against Sagat unless he wants to eat a ton of blck dmg. Dale Posted by sf2rb on 11:15:2001 02:57 AM: not!hk arcade had no sagat master.......people only master honda and rog here.... Posted by GYL on 11:15:2001 04:47 AM: yo sups guys,been reading the thread here.thought i'd add some comments.here in the us,and most big tournies i have heard of in the east akuma is banned in tourny play.hence he's not even considered in the tier of charecters.in the us the top charecters are pretty well known:1.balrog(boxer) 2.og sagat after those 2 there are differences depending on where you live.ok,on to another note,honda does not own sagat in any way shape or form unless the sagat player is just weak.the only charecters that really give sagat problems are bison,vega,and a patient sim.honda really gets owned by all the shotos for free,if the shoto player knows the zone in which he should keep honda in.it'll be a uphill fight for honda all the way.i'd give the fight to the shoto an easy 9/10 matches. Posted by sf2rb on 11:15:2001 05:17 AM: Re: yo quote: Originally posted by GYL sups guys,been reading the thread here.thought i'd add some comments.here in the us,and most big tournies i have heard of in the east akuma is banned in tourny play.hence he's not even considered in the tier of charecters.in the us the top charecters are pretty well known:1.balrog(boxer) 2.og sagat after those 2 there are differences depending on where you live.ok,on to another note,honda does not own sagat in any way shape or form unless the sagat player is just weak.the only charecters that really give sagat problems are bison,vega,and a patient sim.honda really gets owned by all the shotos for free,if the shoto player knows the zone in which he should keep honda in.it'll be a uphill fight for honda all the way.i'd give the fight to the shoto an easy 9/10 matches. gyl........shoto are very gd against honda in st.but NOT FOR FREE................shoto players must had a gd fb trap and quick dp to win............. sagat?just torpedo low tiger and jumpin..... All times are GMT. The time now is 11:00 PM. Show all 24 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.